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Podcast 106 Order of the Arrow, Young Troops and Young Scouts
Previous post: Ten Essentials of Scoutmastership
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{ 10 comments… read them below or add one }
I’ve got mixed feelings with when it comes to the OA. As a youth member, in a different council, the OA was a truly a brotherhood of scouting. However, I have had more then one scout approach me about members not living up to the Scout oath and promise during the ordeal weekend. Even after being inducted, these new OA members could care less if they ever attended another OA function.
It wasn’t too long into my OA involvement that I learned it was going to be whatever I made of it (like most things I guess). If a particular lodge doesn’t give you much to work with there’s not much to make of it I guess.
I hope you’re ok Blaise! Thanks for coming by. Clarke may have to put a lid on me. Sometimes I talk too much
I have to disagree with one point of the OA discussion. I think that asking the Scout if he wants to be on the ballot or not is a flaw. Put them on the ballot and let destiny take its course. What if the Scout later changes his mind?
Any number of factors can change his mind. It is better to put him on the ballot and have the opportunity to be elected and let him decide if he wants to complete the Ordeal or not is up to him. There is no foul in doing this.
Another good point Darrin! Just because you are selected you don’t have to accept.
My rule of thumb with Scouts and elections of any kind – don’t game them in any way, don’t seek to control the outcome, just have the Scouts vote.
I guess that I might disagree Darrin. No one should be on a ballot they don’t want to be on. It’s ok if someone doesn’t want it. Second, stacking the ballot with several guys who would just rather not be a part of the OA may reduce the opportunity for those who do. I don’t have an election form in front of me so that I can do the math on that.
There are things in life that we must commit to in order to receive the benefit. I think that this is one of those cases. I also don’t think that Scouts should be on the ballot for SPL or PL if they don’t want the job. That’s sort of what elections are all about?
I would agree with you, maybe, if the OA election were similar to the District Award of Merit, or similar honor. OA membership, however, I believe is more than just an honor or recognition, though it is that. It involves a commitment to an Ordeal and eventually a commitment to the OA Promise. Viewing it in that vein, I believe that it is entirely appropriate for the SM to ask each Scout whether he wants to place his name on the ballot and for the SM and/or the election team member to answer any questions the Scout may have. I have never disapproved a qualified Scout for an OA election, but we (SM/election team) have left Scouts names off of the ballot when requested by the Scout.
Perhaps an experienced election team member would like to pipe up now? YMMV.
Also, I don’t believe that Scouts requesting to the OA Election Team that they don’t want their names on the ballot is not gaming the system. It could and should happen without the adults being involved at all. It’s still up to the individual Scout, IMHO.
Another excellent podcast. You guys did a great job talking about the OA. My son was elected by his troop and although he was honored that the guys in his troop thought well enough of him to elect him, he had some anxiety about attending the Ordeal. We talked about how it would be challenging but he would be safe.
By the end of the weekend he proudly wore his arrow sash and was filled with exciting stories. He’s already signed up for the spring conclave and plans to help out at next year’s ordeal. As an ASM I also went through the ordeal and really enjoyed meeting scouts from other troops.
With your section on young scouts, I was happy to learn that the four hour breakfast is very common amongst other troops.
Clarke and crew,
OA elections are a challenge for large troops. The ideas were brought up with adding pictures to help in basic recognition. We have had a somewhat different problem that took a couple election cycles to figure out with our troop that runs about 90+ scouts.
What we saw was that by the camping and rank requirements, we would have about 20-25 scouts eligible for OA each election cycle. Since our troop, like most, has a pyramid in the ages of the scouts, about half the ballots were from 11 and 12 year olds. For younger scouts, about the only OA eligible scouts that they really knew were their patrol leader and the Senior Patrol Leader. So, we would have half the troop voting for one or two scouts. Therefore, these low number of votes were distributed among many people, and very few would break the 50% threshold for election. Essentially, a positive vote for one scout is a negative 1/2 vote for all the others. The end result is that our troop would have one or two scouts per year for OA.
What we did to help rectify this situation is to introduce into the election some guidance for the voters before the election. Specifically, we talk about how someone elected for OA should be a cheerful camper. If you (the voter) have not had an opportunity to camp with the candidates, it is entirely appropriate to not vote in this election.
With this guidance, we are finding about 1/3 of the candidates are being elected, and in my opinion, every one of the elected candidates met the ideas of the OA.
Instruct the Scouts. Tell them how it should be, by the rules. Then walk away and let them do their thing (vote). And then, amazingly, it turns out great!